Comments on: Who Gotcha? :: The Story Behind The Story Behind The Roxanne Shante Story

By: Gypsy

Gypsy — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:44:10 +0000

Sounds like a bit of a misunderstanding. This gentleman seems to be doing his job in trying to display the facts as far as he knows about Roxanne. We can’t let the fact that we love her get in the way. She or someone she knows broke the story first. So now it’s up to her to just show & prove like she did in the 80′s. Show us the diploma/s & she will shut everyone up, The End!!!!

By: Peter

Peter — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:41:04 +0000

Oliver -

Hypothetically, if Shante came a calling at LBSU and applied for a tenured vacancy, would you approve her candidacy if you sat on the committee deciding her fate? Especially if she claimed the sort of CV that’s apparently bogus? I’m not coming @ you belligerently/antagonistically, just curious as to your take given the time and energy you invested for your doctorate.

If she indeed lied, she lied – people do it all the time, some get caught, others don’t – but not everyone is prepared for the ramifications/consequences if they’re “rumbled” (to borrow a British term). Using insipid excuses such as “she’s gone through the proverbial school of hard knocks and thus gets a free pass” is a spurious claim and a non-sequitur. Providing a copy of her bound dissertation alone would begin to assuage some of her critics and doubters. But silence is what’s most telling at this juncture. Iconoclasm versus blind idolatry…

By: OW

OW — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 05:50:29 +0000

“Why are her claims so dubious, relative to the sensational lies and personas of male rappers?”

If Shante was rapping about being a doctor in a song, we wouldn’t be having this debate. The problem was that she wasn’t rapping about her degree in a song.

If “real life” and “a song” are now equal, we’re all in trouble.

By: OW

OW — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 05:48:44 +0000

“Even if Shante is lying — who cares? ”

And therein lies the major division of the camps.

One could just as easily turn this around ask “who cares if the Slate author is a pro-copyright attorney?”

Looks like we’re not going to find common ground here.

By: Mike

Mike — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:29:14 +0000

Jeff, I was a fan of Shante’s growing up but I don’t find your argument to have much force. Your main points are (a) the journalist was biased and (b) that he did not follow-up on on the claim that Shante used an alias while is school. To the first point, the crux of the story had to do with Shante earning her PhD through funding by her label. By her own admission, she never earned a PhD and it is questionable whether she earned a master’s. Whether the journalist was biased or not is pretty irrelevant here. Further, as you note, he disclosed his interests at the end of the article (and it is not common to express more than what he did).

To the second point, the journalist clearly states that Shante was not able to substantiate the claim that she used an alias. So apparently he did make an attempt at obtaining that information. Shante, the best source for this, did not provide it. Nor did she provide any diploma which would have at least clearer part of this story up. To me, the evidence is pretty clear.

By: Catherine

Catherine — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:24:31 +0000

Wayne & Jeff – Thanks for writing this. While I don’t feel personally moved one way or the other about the level of Shante’s educational attainment, as a journalist I did find the Slate piece a pretty poor piece of “investigative journalism.” Not only did the author fail, as you said, to follow some pretty obvious leads in an effort to get a full story, his personal and professional biases were also obvious (not to mention his poor writing skills – how many times did he switch from the journalistic third person to the first?)

Your point about the validity of this investigation is a good one too. Even if Shante is lying — who cares? What about the rest of hip hop? Why are her claims so dubious, relative to the sensational lies and personas of male rappers?

And, lastly, shame on the commenters of THIS article, who have stooped to making inexcusable sexist remarks about the artist in question — specifically the idiot who made the “Captain save a ho” remark.

By: invincible

invincible — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:58:53 +0000

First and foremost, Much Respect Jeff and Wayne for writing this piece.
It is so sad when people comment online and say things they would never say to that person’s face (Dr.Shante in this case, Jeff/Wayne being scolded as accomplices), and at least not in such disrespectful ways. We are talking about a real human being here, not some 2 dimensional cookie cutter cut out.
Roxanne Shante is much more than an artist. She is a motivational speaker, an activist, a mother, and she runs an icee shop in Queens (hip-hop icees) for youth who are failing out of high school to receive extra credit and job experience. She had her first child at age 13 with a man nearly 3 times her age, has survived many horrific experiences, and lived to inspire thousands of people who may be faced with similar situations. She has also inspired and supported dozens of female hip hop artists by paving the way for us. I had the honor of touring last summer in Europe with her, Bahamadia, Stacy Epps, Eternia, DJ Shortee, and several more up and coming female artists. She taught all of us much more than any academic hip hop studies program could ever teach.
I honestly don’t care whether she has a diploma or not, because it doesn’t discredit anything else she has achieved. The fact that most people are so upset with the potentially false college credentials makes me think its less about caring whether she lied or not, and more so people caring deeply about those credentials, as if her voice is any less valid without that piece of paper.
Diploma aside, the second most important point to me is finding out the Slate article author’s motivation behind writing the piece at this time. Was he motivated to advance his own career in the “pro copyright” industry? Was it an inside request from a former colleague at Warner? Was it, as Jeff and Wayne reference, to protect the “industry standard” which could affect his negotiation leverage at his current position at NBC?
Most importantly: Instead of arguing whether she has her diploma or not, i wish this comment board was filled with conversation of why labels wouldn’t pay for artists college education? What type of scholarships could we create for young artists? What if they were REQUIRED to provide education for them.
We are always complaining about the stupidity on the radio, but a majority of these artists come from failing school systems with limited opportunities to advance their own education. Who is proposing those type of long term solutions?
And in the case that Shante was to come out and say she doesn’t have a diploma but would really like to earn one, who would come to her support to fund raise for Hip-Hop legends hoping to return to school later in their career?
Or if she finds a way to “prove” to the public that she has a masters but no PHD and would like to pursue one, would you support her with that path? Or… just dwell on her “misrepresentation” of herself as a doctor?
If nothing else, Shante’s story opens up that deeper access-to-education-for-artists conversation in a way that Slate’s writer attempted to quickly shut down and spin as another “lying rapper”. All of you focused on that latter aspect are missing the point. I hope we can move past it and get to some real solutions, not witch-hunts.

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 14:03:19 +0000

Now why is the domestic violence lead important? Because it might provide an explanation for why Sheffner could not locate all of her school records.

Oh, bullshit. BULLSHIT. You don’t go to school under freaking aliases. Legal name changes, yes. But made up names with no legal documentation? Hellllllll no. You can’t even go to college without immunization records! Is Roxanne so afraid of the big boogeyman that she still can’t tell us what name she used? Now? In 2009? That’s funny – I’m sure Mr. Mike Tyson can find out where she is now.

When I was a child, I had to memorize so many lies to keep my father from finding us that I didn’t know where I was BORN until I was about nine or so. Even with that, I can tell you where I went to college. Hell, I can tell you where I went to high school. Hell, I can tell you where I went to JUNIOR HIGH. You know why? Because I’m grown, that’s why! Even if I was using an assumed name, I could show you papers proving that I at least attended that school.

Why are you guys so determined to hang on to this obvious lie, when even Roxanne – who had one of the biggest mouths in the industry for years – has clammed up? There’s giving a person the benefit of the doubt, and then they’re condoning their bullshit. You’re doing the latter.

By: Peter

Peter — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 05:10:31 +0000

Jeff -

As much as I’ve enjoyed listening to Shante over the years (on Pop Art and then Cold Chillin’), the dubious credibility of her academic credentials is of little concern personally.

The American (vis-a-vis Hollywood) narrative arc would be a (Horatio Alger) rags-to-riches story of person-made-good – tailor made w/ a natty conclusion that appeals to the winsome spirit that possesses a cloying charm; problem is that life is rife w/ more mistake-laden episodes than truly emboldened paths. Hard to subscribe to the veracity of what she says in light of this incident, but it doesn’t dispel from her compelling sonic performances on wax. It’s just a matter of separating her artistic persona from her civilian personality.

Hope and trust you’re well – Jesse Ohtake’s procrastination is the culprit as to why the Toronto interview has yet to be uploaded after all this time… I will offer my own mea culpa although the onus remains his.

By: radioraheem

radioraheem — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 17:42:47 +0000

Jeff:

You are playing the infamous “Captain-Save-A-Ho” role. I can’t for the life of me think as to why you are trying to save this woman from the consequences of her very own shameful actions.

You stated in your very own article that Shante said she only received a BA and an MA, rather than a PhD. But because you are so focused on “saving” this chick, you have failed to read and watch all of the evidence where she clearly states that she did in fact earn a PhD! She’s stated this clearly for years! She’s all over YouTube saying she has a PhD, all over websites, etc.

And now suddenly she admits, according to your very own article, and other sources, that it wasn’t a PhD, but rather an MA? With that tidbit alone, it proves that she is in fact a LIAR! And I’ll say this again — A LIAR! Her entire credibility comes into question just from that alone.

Anyone who earned an undergraduate and/or graduate degree should be offended by the unethical tactics of this chick. She deserves everything she is getting as a result. And I for one am not about to sit here and try to “save” this cold blooded liar.

Cut out the “Captain-Save-A-Ho” crap. You are not Superman. Defending her nonexistent honor is really disgusting.